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Who Needs Many Friends: Follow-Up To Follow-Up







Who Needs Many Friends: Follow-Up To
Follow-Up

Who Needs Many Friends: Follow-Up To
Follow-Up
04/09/2004 04:01 PM

Many thanks to everybody who emailed me in response to my yesterday's post about the iChat "feedbag" error and its...




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Who Needs Many Friends: Follow-Up To Follow-Up

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On "Feedbag Error 17"...


On "Feedbag Error 17"... 10/29/2003 12:10 AM

A couple of days ago I noticed that I couldn't add Azeem Azhar to my iChat AV contacts list. I kept getting returned "Feedbag Error 17" which seemed entirely unexpected and unpleasantly phrased. Was I a feedbag? Had iChat eaten Azeem? The mind boggled.

After several hours of consideration, another option occurred to me. Perhaps iChat was trying to protect me from excessive contact with Azeem! Maybe my beautiful new Pantherised beast was being defensive! "No, Tom!" It was going, "He's bad news! He'll tell you that you work in Marketing again and you'll get all cross and defensive and make that ludicrous speech about being an artisan! Please! Please! Let me protect you from the embarrassment!" At which point, I assumed, feedbag laptop decided to chow-down on poor Mr Azhar's AIM name with fierce hungry vengeance. I touted this theory around a few of my friends. General consensus, "It's not a bug, it's a feature!"

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Read the comments


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With that in mind I now tell libxml to continue the processing, but I start ignoring all of the callbacks. That way I get a list of all the errors, but properly stop the DOM tree buildup after the first error.

For those of you who suggested that WebKit needs some sort of error reporting API, I agree, and if it had one, these errors would obviously be reported to it. However, these errors still have to be reported aggressively so that WebKit clients can't mask these mistakes.

I don't believe in showing a sheet or a dialog as an intermediate step prior to displaying a rendering of the page. The reason I dislike this idea is that this error reporting is primarily a Web developer feature, and they're just going to want to load the page, see the errors, maybe correct some CSS at the same time, and then reload with changes until the error report has been eliminated.

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I have polished the look of the report a bit based off suggestions. Here's another screenshot.


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Support now available

XML Error Reporting II


XML Error Reporting II 01/22/2004 03:30 PM

Responding to comments in the previous blog entry:

(1) Some people thought this was a hacked expat. Darin actually switched Safari over to libxml2, so the error messages you're seeing (as well as the ability to continue parsing) are all built in to libxml2.

(2) Do you think it's better to show the page only up to the first error or to try to display the entire page (with the understanding that what follows the first error could be very badly mangled)?

(3) Often there are a lot of meaningless errors after the first. I could put a cap on the number of displayed errors to deal with this problem or just not worry about it. What do people think?

(4) Those of you who suggested drawers for errors, remember a drawer is a UI element in Safari and not WebKit. This feature should just work out of the box for WebKit clients, so I'm inclined not to use drawers or sheets, but to just display the errors at the top of the page.


Error-Wait-0.01


Error-Wait-0.01 11/03/2003 05:54 PM

More on XML Error Handling


More on XML Error Handling 01/22/2004 02:56 AM

I thought I'd respond to a few of the comments I received:

Many people suggested that there be a built-in validator in the browser that could show the errors to the developer. The validators basically break down into two types: obtrusive validators and unobtrusive validators.

If the validator is unobtrusive, then I would argue that it won't receive sufficient usage to make a difference. If the browser doesn't impose a penalty of some kind, then there will be no incentive for the author to correct mistakes.

I can see the value of an obtrusive validator, as long as the obtrusive part was only checking well-formedness (i.e., really basic mistakes).

(2) Some people pointed out that my own blog was not valid. I have two responses to that:

(a) I am not arguing for perfectly valid XML documents. I am arguing for well-formed XML documents. There is a difference. I think asking that the page be well-formed is setting the bar fairly low. For example, one of the current errors on this blog is that I have two elements with the same id. While this makes the blog invalid, it does not have any effect on the blog being well-formed. At least I don't think it does. :)

(b) I'm illustrating a point, namely that I have no reason to make the blog valid, given that browsers will display the blog anyway.

(3) People complained that I wasn't serving up XHTML. I can't actually serve up XHTML if I want the blog to be displayable in all browsers, including Safari, which still has sufficient issues with XHTML that I can't make that switch yet.

(4) My comments on HTML error handling were largely misinterpreted.

Some people thought I was attacking WinIE for its permissive handling of HTML. I was not, and I'm glad others appreciated that fact. Back in the 90s WinIE had to emulate the permissive error handling of the then-dominant browser Netscape. They had no choice if they wanted Web sites to be viewable as the designer intended. They were in the same position then that Safari is in now.

Nor am I suggesting that WinIE should become less tolerant of malformed HTML, or that they are at fault for not doing so. That is simply not a logical conclusion to have drawn from my previous comments. You can't take a Web site (even a malformed one) that works a certain way and suddenly refuse to render it or even render it radically differently than before.

For HTML, this issue was resolved long ago in favor of permissive error handling and recovery, and no modern browser is to blame for that situation.

Others said a browser that handles malformed HTML is better than one that does not, and if Safari doesn't handle all this malformed HTML, then it's simply not as capable a browser.

What amused me about this comment is that there is no definition of what it means to handle malformed HTML. As long as a browser shows you something and doesn't crash, it has handled the malformed HTML. What people don't understand is that you don't simply have to handle the malformed HTML. You have to handle it in exactly the same way as the Web browser that the site author designed for.

If you do not, you'll end up with different renderings of the same page, which as I said before, constitute the largest set of rendering differences between Web browsers. Perfect emulation is what makes error recovery so difficult. If you allow grossly malformed pages, then most XML on the Web will end up being grossly malformed (as is the case with HTML today).

Once you have a Web full of grossly malformed XML, there will be one dominant browser that designers will check to see if the site looks ok. They will then make assumptions that other browsers will recover from the malformation errors in precisely the same way and will simply assume that it is the fault of the other browsers if they don't.

Right now it is the responsibility of alternate browsers to emulate the dominant browser's error recovery strategies, but there's simply no reason to do that for XML as well.


Error in SMS RTM Documentation


Error in SMS RTM Documentation 05/28/2004 05:06 AM

Error In Downloading


Error In Downloading 11/14/2003 09:47 PM
Record, tech industries battle to make music pay off. By Russ Britt and Steve Gelsi (CBS MarketWatch via MyAppleMenu)

VBScript Error with FTM


VBScript Error with FTM 09/02/2004 02:43 AM

Margins of Error


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Who Needs Many Friends: Follow-Up To Follow-Up

The following phrases have been identified by the grok system as matching this entry: aol feedbag 1.1 format aol feedbag 1.1 icq feedbag error 14 ichat "feedbag error 10" gaim emoticons small non obtrusive aim ichat "feedbag error 10" sending reported error (0x800ccc69) ichat - "feedbag error 10" feedbag "error 10" could not add to your buddy list. "(feedbag error 10)"

















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