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MyYahoo Adding RSS, OPML Support







MyYahoo Adding RSS, OPML Support

MyYahoo Adding RSS, OPML Support 01/23/2004 01:27 AM

Scott Katz, from Yahoo's MyYahoo personalization area, points me to a beta version of an RSS module for MyYahoo pages. He says:

"While still an early release, we'd appreciate it if you (and your readers) would help us test it and provide feedback. It's not widely available today -- you need to visit a hidden URL to add it to your My Yahoo page. Once you've got the module, you can search and add feeds or import OPML files."




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Add Your Library to MyYahoo!


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Keep RSS Free for All

"Cast your vote for free choice, and away from restricted, proprietary services, by using open RSS news readers and all feeds. Walling RSS up inside a proprietary garden is wrong. And expensive too!" [eWeek]

This one went through the blogosphere over the weekend, dusting up some controversy about NewsGator. However, what really caught my eye is this little image almost thrown away towards the end of the article.

Add to My Yahoo graphic

Now, isn't that graphic waaaaaaaaay better than a button that says "XML"? Here's the URL syntax that goes behind it: http://add.my.yahoo.com/rss?url=http://theshiftedlibrarian.com /rss.xml.

So now, your library can add this graphic to allow MyYahoo users to easily subscribe to your site! That would what is known as an "inroad" into the mainstream.

Request: I hope quickSub adds MyYahoo!


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on OPML


on OPML 01/11/2004 09:23 PM

On my previous entry about Postel's Law, Danny Ayers made a comment, and to a part of it I said I'd reply in a separate entry. To make the question clear, I'll restate it here in a different way to involve the technology only.

Essentially, Danny was asking "If you have used OPML, would you agree that OPML does not follow this route you are advocating of adding as many constraints as possible to a spec, to make interoperability easier?" (Danny, if I misunderstood the question please let me know, but I'm pretty sure that was the essence of your comment, personal matters aside).

My answer to that question would have to be no, I do not agree. Let me explain.

I have implemented both readers and writers of OPML when used for RSS subscription lists for an end-user product (ie, clevercactus). And there is one main point that I've found frustrating, namely that the attributes used on the "outline" element vary between tools. I have previous ly noted, in another context the elements that would "complete the spec" by properly specifying these attributes.

However, I've come to the conclusion that this is not a problem with the spec itself, but rather a problem of what are we using it for. As far as I can read in the spec, it was designed to be a very simple and flexible storage mechanism. The first sentence in the spec says "This document describes a format for storing outlines in XML 1.0" (my emphasis). It doesn't say "This is a format for interchange of outlines" or anything like that.

That is, creating an interoperable format for RSS subscription lists was not part of the original "charter" of OPML.

Which is why I can't agree with Danny's statement, because the interoperability problems we all know about pop up when using OPML outside of its original intended domain.

As such, that is, as a format for local storage of outlines, the OPML spec might have done a good thing by keeping things very open. Note that the spec explicitly says, in its goals: "Outlines can be used for specifications, legal briefs, product plans, presentations, screenplays, directories, diaries, discussion groups, chat systems and stories." -- that's a big set of apps, and I'd be hard pressed to define a consistent set of common attributes for all of them. To be honest, if it was me designing it maybe I would have chosen a different path (like for example target less applications), but that's not really the point. Design is at its core subjective.

So. Given that OPML was not originally designed as an interoperable way to store feed subscription lists, the current situation is logical, almost predictable. It seems to me (given what I've seen--I might be wrong of course) that this is a use of OPML that grew in ad-hoc fashion and as such created some incompatibility problems. But is this a problem with OPML itself? I don't think so. Usage grew beyond its original intended target, and things got a bit messy.

Okay, that's my answer to Danny's question, but I just want to be clear on what I think about OPML given the current situation, as what I said above might seem a bit too ... err... "theoretical".

That is, we still have the interoperability problems for feed subscription lists.

However, now that it's clear that it has become accepted for that use, I noticed that Dave recently put up a short RFC that clearly states "Using OPML to exchange subscription lists". My comments from October last year would, then, apply in this new context, and the new RFC already covers part of them (the most important in my mind, which is the issue of standard attributes).

This new spec of "Interchangeable OPML Subscription Lists" plus the OPML spec itself (which doesn't necessarily need to change, since it is still relevant in its original intended domain) make a simple combined spec that is useful and already deployed (granted, some aggregators might be generating different attribute names that those on the RFC, but that's a tiny change, and none of the other items under discussion that I'm aware of are in any way "deal-breakers").

Hence, OPML applied to the domain of feed subscription lists in particular is a good solution, simple and to the point. And to me that's what matters: if something does what I need, it's simple, and it works, I'm all for it.


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XML-OPML-0.1.6


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XML-OPML-SimpleGen-0.02


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OPML is a simple, widely used, yet often misunderstood, XML format created by Dave Winer.  IMHO, misunderstandings stem from overexposure to traditional ways of using XML.  I must admit, I also laughed at OPML when I first looked at it years ago.  But when I cocked my head (a technique anyone can learn from their dogs), it began to make a lot of sense.

This is what I saw:

Infoset:

  • An OPML document is a collection of objects.
  • An object may have properties and contents.
  • An object's properties are unordered map of name/value pairs.
  • An object's contents are ordered list of objects.

Syntax:

  • Objects are encoded as XML elements named 'outline'.
  • Properties are encoded as XML attributes.
  • Content objects are encoded as child XML elements.

Once you get this picture in your mind, you start to appreciate OPML more.  Throw in display and interaction semantics builted into the format along with distributed object linking and embedding Dave often raves about and you got quite a beast of a language.

As to the question of who defines the properties, the answer is everybody does.  OPML is a kind of Emergent Markup Language in that common properties are expected to emerge through industry practices rather than standardization through committees.

There are some shortcomings with OPML though which I would like to see addressed.

OPML Wiki

OPML needs a wiki for OPML developers to interact with each other and to document how each of them are using OPML so that standard or type-specific properties may emerge.

Structured Properties

One weakness of XML is that, while elements may be structured, attributes may not.  Since properties are encoded as XML attributes in OPML, (semi) structured properties (i.e. HTML fragments) have to be encoded at the cost of readability.

I think the need for a wiki is far more serious than the need for structured property support.


XML-OPML-SimpleGen-0.01


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I've added ScriptingNews2 and OPML versions of my feeds.  If anybody has any interesting applications of these feeds, please let me know.

logos OPML directory


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Oskar van Rijswijk has a great collection of OPML files on his site. Just browse his OPML directory in FeedDemon, then click any of the OPML links to create a new FeedDemon channel group.


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MyYahoo Adding RSS, OPML Support

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