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Dave McComb on Business Semantics (a new IT Conversation).







Dave McComb on Business Semantics (a new
IT Conversation).

Dave McComb on Business Semantics (a new
IT Conversation).
11/11/2003 08:06 PM

As anyone who's taken on a large-scale multi-party integration project will tell you, "the plumbing is the easy part." By far the greatest challenges come from reconciling semantic differences between systems and organizations. In this interview, Dave answers some of the hottest questions in today's world of semantics. In a recent essay, author Clay Shirky challenged the voracity of the Semantic Web. Dave agrees in part, but goes on to defend the concept and its importance to solving our profusion of data and our inability to make use of it. Ever tried to use Google to search for anything written by George W. Bush rather than about him? [Dave's recommended book about the Semantic Web.] We also discuss the quality of metadata and the challenges of tagging performed by humans. Dave compares the simplicity of the ontology of the species to an ontology for fine art, which virtually requires an idiolect. And don't we all remember the funny-if-it-weren't-so-sad incident of the Mars Climate Orbiter, which crashed into the surface of the planet because a function written to accept data in English units was passed a metric-system value. Or was it the other way around? It's all about semantics.




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ericm.jpgEric Meyer is giving a session at SXSW called 'Emergent Semantics' - which (as opposed ot Emergent Democracy) appears to be the religion of the day.

A RESTful approach - which ignores APIs, meta-data and many other efforts and standards being established on the web today. There seems to be a pre-occupatoopn with 'simple' is better, to the detriment of working together with others.

Eric calls it a Ground up - grass roots effort - yet there are some fairly formal things going on. Eric claims it's an evolutionary approach and it's based upon established standards like XHTML. Yet isn't XHTML fairly new itself?

Semantics get added in an ad hoc way. I certainly groove on that idea.

But to refute server based technology, XML and APIs - seems a bit extreme to me.

I've often wondered why some people differentiate between UPPER case and lower case semantics. But from what I see - these lower case folks seem to have their OWN dogma.

Issues:

hcal instead of iCal (the rdf iCal.)

microformat instead of micro-content (perhaps their defintion of microformat is at the single verb/noun level - while I define micro-content tobe fairly richly structured chnucks of content - specifcially content.)

XFN instead of FOAF

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XML vs RDF

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One thing that Eric and I agree upon - is the metaphor of archipelagos.

I also like his notion of crossed links with XFN - ways to cross breed and mutate these microformat ntions. Eric claims the pieces are there now - maybe - maybe not.

But one thing I totally disagree with is - where's the meta-data? Eric said "it's all meta-data" - then why avoid using the term?


No I don't wanna come off as some sort of RDF zealot - but I also don't like to see one-sided thinking. In some cases - these standards are just arbitray spin-offs - not necessarily grounded in any stable principle other than "NOT rdf" or "NOT semantic web".

Why can't we work together?

What's wrong with a 'pseudo-schema' we all can agree upon BEFORE it's 'rendered' into a specific distribution method? i.e. pre-RSS ificiation. Or Atomization for that matter.

I really think 2005 can be the year that various viewpoints on how to build standards - can come together - for the benefit of all.

"Don't pave the cow paths" seems like a really reasonable approach. I just gotta wonder what's wrong with FOAFnet, meta-data and calling it micro-content - beside sthet fact that someone else has defined it and that they're associated with rdf.

Or maybe it's about an aritrary demand that nothing can be too complex and that it MUST be really really really really simple. Maybe they'll create their OWN subscription format called RRRRS.


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So as the world has caught up with my ideas, it's becoming more and more important that we DO IT RIGHT!

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talkingstick
I've been at a conference for the last couple of days, and have spent a significant portion of that time eavesdropping on conversations. Aside from the obvious observations (that most people don't listen, and that men do most of the talking and interrupting in mixed company conversations) what most astonished me was the unintended lack of politeness and courtesy that seems to characterize most conversations. It's not that the participants are rude -- it's just that they seem to lack mutually-understood and mutually-respected protocols to govern conversation in a civilized manner. This, in a world in which we are beleaguered by rules in almost everything else we do, seems remarkable to me.

So I did a bit of research to see whether I could find some protocols, some rules of behaviour, that work effectively regardless of the number, gender or conversational style of the participants. The longest-established protocol is also, it seems, the most misunderstood. This is the protocol of the Talking Stick, which has its roots in aboriginal American culture and in that of some third-world cultures as well. The basic rules of the Talking Stick protocol, from what I can ascertain, are as follows:
  1. The person holding the Talking Stick is the only one who can speak.Others must listen and not interrupt, even to ask clarifying questions. The onus is on the speaker to be clear, brief, and respectful.
  2. Generally the person most respected by the group (the tribal elder, or the person selected by the elder to present the issue to the group) talks first.
  3. The Talking Stick is then passed clockwise as each person finishes, and makes one complete circle of the participants. Participants with nothing to add simply pass the Stick along.
  4. The person who spoke first asks then whether additional discussion is warranted, and if anyone thinks so, the Stick is again passed around the circle.
There have been a number of 'improvements' suggested to this process, such as allowing clarifying questions, allowing people to reach for the stick in any order, first-come, first-served, and summarization or 'voting' processes, but none of these enhancements has a distinguished history and none in my opinion represents a significant improvement to the basic protocol. Allowing the group to engage in two-person iterative Q&A, or sidebar conversations, would seem to me to abrogate the three duties of clarity, brevity and respectfulness, or at least render them less necessary. In some Talking Stick circles, if you take the stick you must begin your speech by briefly reiterating what the previous speaker said, and only when that synopsis receives a nod from the previous speaker can you begin saying your piece. In some cases this might work brilliantly, but in others it could make the conversation interminably long and repetitive.

It is not clear to what extent the Law of Two Feet applies in Talking Stick circles -- where if you find the discussion valueless or frustrating you have the option to leave, without repercussions, and perhaps start another conversation on the same or another subject with those similarly inclined. The alternative would be to assume that if you chose to accept the invitation to join the conversation in the first place, you owe the rest of the group the courtesy of giving them your attention until it is finished. My personal view is that this judgement (whether leaving a conversation you find tedious is discourteous or not) is best left up to the individual.

I have witnessed many 'moderated' conversations, where one person decides who will speak next, or where people raise their hands to be next to speak and a first-come, first-served honour system applies, and found them mostly frustrating. But anarchy, where the loudest voice always prevails, seems to me even more so, and also unfair. Where the participants are part of a hierarchy, and rank clearly determines speaking priority, the result is too often not really conversation at all, but rather an information reporting and instruction exercise.

I have witnessed, too, meetings that allow the listeners to use tacit signals to prompt the speaker without interrupting them: Holding up a green card means "I like what you're saying", a red card the opposite, and a yellow card signals "I don't understand what you're saying". They tend not to work, I think, because the green encourages unnecessary loquaciousness, the red is rarely used because it would be perceived as rude, and the yellow is rarely used because it might make the listener appear stupid. Electronic equivalents (IMs that the speaker can read on-screen while talking) present the same discouragements, and also are more of a distractions than most speakers can handle on the fly.

One of my favourite conversational formats is the interview/Q&A, where one (or more) persons pose questions and the other(s) restrict themselves to answering them. There is a certain inherent democracy in such conversations -- each side gives up certain speaking rights in return for receiving others. Unrehearsed, they require considerable skill and agility to pull off eloquently. Rehearsed, they can be extremely effective at transferring knowledge but they become less conversations than performances.

So my sense, based more on observations of what doesn't work than what does, would be that the use of a Talking Stick or similar icon might be very helpful, even in two-person conversations (to reduce propensity to interrupt). I'm ambivalent about whether passing the Stick clockwise or allowing anyone to grab it next providing they satisfactorily summarize the last speaker's message first, would work better -- and I suspect it would depend on the subject and the conversational style of the participants. I do like the idea of using a subtle timer to reinforce the importance of clarity and brevity, which seem so absent in most modern conversations that the resulting incoherence is often unintentionally hilarious to the eavesdropper. Beyond that, I'm not partial to any 'improvements' to the basic four-rule Talking Stick process described above.

What's worked for you? Have you tried using such techniques, and when are they effective (and not)? Are there other techniques, newer or older, that work better, and when are they appropriate? And what of telephone and Skype conversations, or those anarchic multi-party IM sessions? Could a 'virtual Talking Stick' be introduced to organize such conversations? It should be easy enough for the technology to handle, but has anyone actually tried imposing this kind of discipline on non-face-to-face conversations? And perhaps most important, does practice using these techniques tend to make more polite, respectful and articulate conversations second nature? Or is there some reason I'm missing why interruption and 'louder voices prevail' protocols are so prevalent in our conversations, seemingly by default?


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Grok Description matches for Dave McComb on Business Semantics (a new IT Conversation).
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Dave McComb on Business Semantics (a new IT Conversation).

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