stargeek
PHP news website logo.
home    PHP scripts    articles    seo tools    links    search    contact    shop    realtors


On Extending HTML







On Extending HTML

On Extending HTML 07/07/2004 04:10 PM

A few people have written me expressing concern over the extensions that Apple has made to HTML in order to support Safari RSS and Dashboard. I wanted to explain what we've done and hopefully clear up any confusion.

Let's start by talking about the contenteditable attribute and drag and drop. I bring these up first because what we implemented is exactly compatible with WinIE. In the case of contenteditable, we have no choice regarding syntax. We have received many bugs to support already-deployed systems that use contenteditable, and so we are constrained syntactically. Had we gone our own route, we still wouldn't work with the Web pages that use it, and it would be unrealistic to expect all of those Web sites to modify their systems simply to support Safari. This is especially true if you consider that Web sites frequently deploy systems that they didn't write in the first place, and so they wouldn't know how to modify them anyway.

Drag and drop is a similar situation. Web sites use it, and so we need to support it. We already support dozens of WinIE-invented properties, many of which are incredibly useful and well-specified, so I'm a bit confused as to why contenteditable and drag and drop are creating any stir at all. These attributes are no different from innerHTML or offsetWidth and offsetHeight or innerText or oncontextmenu or any one of the other WinIE extensions that Safari has supported since its first beta 18 months ago.

We have a phrase we like to use here on the Safari team, and that's "real-world standards compliance." What that means is that where possible we attempt to be fully compatible with the W3C standards, but we also want to support the real-world standards, i.e., extensions that for better or worse have become de facto standards. If you really do believe we should not have implemented contenteditable, then you are simply out of touch with reality.

As for the Dashboard extensions that involve changing HTML, there are exactly four of them. We've tried to keep the number to a minimum, but this functionality was required in order to build the gadgets. Let me outline them again:

(1) Slider controls. This is not only used by Dashboard but also by Safari RSS, and so this feature cannot be restricted only to the Dashboard.
(2) Search fields. Again, this feature is used by Dashboard and Safari RSS.
(3) The new composite attribute on the img tag. This feature is used only by Dashboard.
(4) The canvas tag. This feature is used only by Dashboard.

The principal complaint seems to be that we should not be polluting HTML. However, I'm not sure what we should have done instead. I can outline some of your suggestions and explain why we discarded them.

First, it was suggested that the widgets be written in XML rather than HTML and that all of the new tags and attributes be namespaced. However, this would have dramatically increased the complexity of crafting Dashboard widgets. People know how to write HTML, but most of those same people have never written an XML file, and namespaces are a point of confusion.

In addition there are technical hurdles to the use of XML. Every modern browser, including Mozilla and Safari, is much worse at XHTML than at HTML. People tend to foolishly gloss over the transition from one to the other, thinking that code you write for one will "just work" when you switch to XHTML. That simply isn't true. If you look at XHTML in both Mozilla and Safari and compare it to HTML, you'll see that it's slower, non-incremental, and generally buggier than HTML.

An example of a feature that won't "just work" when moved from HTML to XHTML is editing. The serialization model is totally different for XHTML, and HTML elements that have to be written out when you get the raw markup must know to do so using XML-style syntax in XHTML documents. Editing must be able to serialize namespaces, and ideally even preserve the namespace prefixes that were used at various points in the document as well as the use of default namespaces as set up by the author. Right off the bat I've outlined a challenging editing feature that only exists in the XHTML world. There are many more examples of these kinds of problems.

The perfect example of a widget that combines editing with HTML extensions is the Stickies widget. We simply could not have moved this widget to XHTML without doing an enormous amount of XML work.

A second complaint leveled against us was over the canvas tag, namely that it should have been done using SVG. My response to this is simple. Go to the w3c Web site and print out the SVG specification. Twenty minutes later, after you've killed a few dozen trees, then maybe you'll have an appreciation for why this wasn't practical.

Remember that SVG would have forced the use of XHTML, which had all the problems outlined above. Now add to that time the amount of work that would be required to get even a rudimentary SVG implementation going. Now factor in the time it would have taken to make that implementation perform well enough when compared with a programmatic counterpart like the canvas. Canvas only took a handful of days to implement. SVG would take months to implement.

In other words, in an ideal world where we had two years to craft Dashboard, maybe we could have used XHTML and SVG, but we aren't living in that ideal world. We can basically manage only one "huge" layout engine feature in a development cycle, and given our developer feedback the choice of HTML editing as the feature to focus on this cycle was clear. We would still love to implement SVG and XSLT and other great technologies in the future, but we simply can't do everything at once.

Finally we have submitted all of our extensions to the WHAT-WG for review. The slider in particular is already in the Web Forms draft. It is our hope that these HTML extensions will ultimately be standardized by a working group, but I wanted to emphasize that we are working with other browser vendors such as Opera and Mozilla to ensure that these extensions are implementable in those browsers and that these extensions can be standardized. We are not simply off "doing our own thing."




This is a GrokNews Entry: (what is grok?)





Similar Items

On Extending HTML

Grok Headline matches for On Extending HTML

Extending HTML, Again


Extending HTML, Again 07/13/2004 01:52 AM
I had thought I’d said enough on this subject, but when Dave Hyatt tells you to speak up, up you speak. Summary: Dave’s latest approach for his new widgets is OK but a little clumsy, and I don’t quite get why Hixie prefers dashes to colons...

More On Extending HTML


More On Extending HTML 07/08/2004 09:02 PM

I received more feedback on our HTML extensions, and some people made some good suggestions for how Safari should handle extensions to HTML. There were essentially three good ideas that were pointed out to me (along with a host of really bad ones).

Tim Bray suggested namespacing the extensions we've made to HTML. Eric Meyer suggested this as well. The idea would be that you could feed your HTML with the namespace declaration to an HTML parser and it would essentially have namespace support and understand how to handle the namespaced content. This is my favorite of the suggestions, since the namespace could effectively be hacked and only allowed on the root element. This seems like a minor cut-and-paste requirement to impose on Dashboard authors that want to use the new tags and attributes.

A second suggestion was to make a special DTD. I don't like this suggestion as much, since doctypes are used for setting browser modes, and I don't want to impose a particular mode on Dashboard widget authors.

A third suggestion was to restrict these tags and attributes only to Dashboard. This seems reasonable on the surface but would be difficult to do in practice, and besides, as I stated before, we actually are submitting these extensions to WHAT-WG for review anyway. This means the intent is for them to find their way into HTML eventually.

I'll look into what it would take to implement the first suggestion. It sounds to me like people will be satisfied with such a solution. I do wonder what to do with the new values to the type attribute on the input element. Search and range are new values to an already-existing attribute, and so I'm not sure how to mollify people on this one. Breaking those out into new attributes not only makes little sense to me, since it allows for a contradictory type clash (by specifying multiple attributes), but it also would complicate the code in WebCore that routinely switches on the type of the input element.

Going forward, I'm curious what the reaction will be as WHAT-WG works to further extend HTML. Assuming that the W3C has really decreed HTML4 to be obsolete, what happens when a proposal is made by multiple browser vendors to extend it? If the W3C rejects it, should the browser vendors be forced to keep their content namespaced forever? I guess we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.


extending HTML 4.01


extending HTML 4.01 07/08/2004 04:02 PM
Dave Hyatt

weblogs.mozillazine.org/hyatt/archives/2004_07.html#005928
track this site | 9 links


Vulns: WebCT Campus Edition HTML Tags
HTML Injection Vulnerabilities


Vulns: WebCT Campus Edition HTML Tags
HTML Injection Vulnerabilities
05/20/2004 05:40 PM
SecurityFocus May 20 2004 8:47PM GMT

Vulns: Horde IMP HTML+TIME HTML
Injection Vulnerability


Vulns: Horde IMP HTML+TIME HTML
Injection Vulnerability
08/06/2004 04:29 PM
SecurityFocus Aug 6 2004 8:16PM GMT

Vulns: Google Toolbar About.HTML HTML
Injection Vulnerability


Vulns: Google Toolbar About.HTML HTML
Injection Vulnerability
09/20/2004 03:18 PM
SecurityFocus Sep 20 2004 6:14PM GMT

Extending Your Forms


Extending Your Forms 10/28/2003 11:06 PM
For the googolth time, I've been asked to retrieve form values and generate client-side validation after a user has changed some page information on-the-fly. I like this type of feature. To me it seems user-helpful and I feel it makes...

Extending Gmail


Extending Gmail 08/09/2004 08:08 PM
Gmail Apps I'm a self-described GMail addict and overall Google product whore, so this page of applications for Gmail has me doing the happy dance.

Extending Contribute


Extending Contribute 08/16/2004 07:42 PM
Learn the skills you need to enhance the functionality of Contribute.

Extending Red Hat 7 - 9 with Progeny


Extending Red Hat 7 - 9 with Progeny 05/12/2004 07:01 PM
php architect, Canada - 12 hours ago ... More importantly, they offer a Red Hat support system that tracks and provides rpm updates to Red Hat Linux servers running versions 7 through 9. They ...

Extending PHP with DreamWeaver MX


Extending PHP with DreamWeaver MX 03/11/2003 01:22 AM
I prefer to use a text editor to code PHP, but when editing HTML I prefer DreamWeaver. Macromedia has a whole section on their web-site dedicated to PHP and Dreamweaver. An interesting article I found on this site is Building a dynamic website using Dreamweaver MX and PHAkt (pdf). "zeldman.darla"

Extending SVG for XForms (XML.com)


Extending SVG for XForms (XML.com) 05/23/2002 10:39 PM

Extending SVG for XForms


Extending SVG for XForms 05/23/2002 10:39 PM

Extending headings with XML


Extending headings with XML 07/03/2002 01:04 AM
One of the problems with the way the current heading system works is that headings are not associated with their content. However, if you are using XML in the form of XHTML, then you can use XML namespaces to extend heading behavious.

Extending Connexion to the Ground


Extending Connexion to the Ground 04/09/2004 03:57 PM
Connexion by Boeing and Singapore's StarHub connect network billing: It's been a dream of mine since I first heard about Connexion that the business traveler of tomorrow checks their email at home over Wi-Fi (using DSL backhaul), handles work in the back of the cab to the airport by 2.5G/3G, logs into the airport Wi-Fi network, and hops on the plane to use in-flight Wi-Fi--all with a single account. StarHub and Connexion's memo of understanding is the first step in seamless connectivity. The kinds of business travelers who routinely fly distances that will be served by Connexion are the kind who want (and possibly need) continuous connectivity to keep their role in the business information flow active. This doesn't mean you want to sit next to them, on the plane, of course, especially once in-flight cellular becomes a reality....

Extending the C++ STL with custom
containers


Extending the C++ STL with custom
containers
07/08/2002 10:50 PM
CNET Jul 8 2002 10:13PM ET

Extending Motion Into Interactivity


Extending Motion Into Interactivity 06/19/2002 12:06 PM
A curriculum for interaction design

Req: Extending Thunderbird for Dummies


Req: Extending Thunderbird for Dummies 08/05/2004 02:32 PM
Anyone know of a site with really simple, step-by-step directions for adding some javascript to Thunderbird? I don't need general purpose info about javascript, but I do need handholding to figure out: 1. How you get TB to recognize scripts; 2. The specifics of interacting with TB's object model. So, a response to #1 would let me run a Hello World script from a button I've added to the TB interface, and #2 would get me started with a script that can read selected emails within TB. Or is this like asking someone for really simple instructions about how to...

Extending the Long Tail


Extending the Long Tail 12/22/2004 01:52 AM
Meanwhile, Chris Anderson, Editor in Chief of Wired, (no relation) has just launched The Long Tail, the blog that follows his seminal article on the subject. Even better, he's got a book coming out on the topic. Now we just need a "most popular unpopular items" chart....

Extending the web with metadata profiles


Extending the web with metadata profiles 09/16/2004 03:39 PM
If you hang around on web-related mailing lists long enough, you start getting the idea that the future is full of metadata. Now, this metadata may or may not be XML, or it may or may not be RDF or OWL or a dozen other technologies with impressive-sounding words like “ontology” in their names. It may or may not be the long-dreamt-of (and often derided) “Semantic Web.” In fact, it may or may not be a dozen different buzzwords, and it may or may not be a good thing. But whatever the future is, it will definitely be full of metadata; on this the experts agree. To my mind there’s a problem with this: the argument always seems to depend on technologies which don’t exist or aren’t quite ready yet, so it always falls back to talking about how things will be “in the future,” which may never get here. Luckily, there's an easy way to add oodles of metadata to your documents right this minute, without having to learn anything more complicated than trusty old HTML 4.01. If it catches on, “the future” might get here a lot sooner than expected.

HTML Tip: Problems With Nested HTML Tags


HTML Tip: Problems With Nested HTML Tags 11/30/2002 12:30 AM
Net Mechanic Nov 29 2002 11:13PM ET

Extending anti-discrimination law: Your
views


Extending anti-discrimination law: Your
views
07/07/2004 07:41 AM
Home Secretary David Blunkett plans to revive a change in anti-discrimination law. Is it necessary and could it be advantageous?

Extending Group Policies, Your Way –
Part One


Extending Group Policies, Your Way –
Part One
07/21/2004 04:22 PM

Extending PHP Classes with the Overload
Extension


Extending PHP Classes with the Overload
Extension
01/19/2003 12:09 PM
An interesting article on using Andrei Zmievski's Overload extension which comes standard with PHP since 4.3.0. The overload extension defines three "magic" functions; __call(), __set() and __get(). If we place these in a class then declare (outside the class) that it is overloaded, PHP will use the magic functions if it finds that a member variable or function does not exist. PS: On another topic, there will probably be a patch release to fix bugs in PHP 4.3.0, so if you haven't upgraded yet, don't bother until the patch comes out. "zeldman.hgr"

Transforming XML: Extending XSLT with
EXSLT


Transforming XML: Extending XSLT with
EXSLT
01/05/2005 10:07 PM
In this month's Transforming XML column, Bob DuCharme reports happily that the promise of XSLT extensibility via EXSLT has become a reality.

GLS05: Extending the Reach of Games


GLS05: Extending the Reach of Games 06/24/2005 03:29 PM

Doug Thomas: Teaching (not so long ago) in a Galaxy Far, Far Away: Using Star Wars Galaxies in/as the Classroom
new journal coming out – Cultures in Games

taught 14 students in this class

the game is profession-based, half of which have to do with social interaction rather than exploring, killing, etc.
provides a significant social basis for play

showed a video invitation he received for a party to celebrate a one-year anniversary for entertainers – a LOT of dancing
– all of this has nothing to do with the game itself or Star Wars; build their own cantinas for parties
“biggest party in the galaxy”

course goals:
– three distinct points of view – designer, player, and critic - in order to look at the way communities are created
– games as objects to think with

one student got married 4 times in the game over the semester

challenging assumptions:
– fun/learning binary; we tend to hold those terms in opposition; we usually say it’s okay to have fun as long as you’re learning; flip this to say it’s okay to learn as long as you’re having fun
– play/teaching dichotomy

Thomas went from being in a class to being in a game
– traditional assumptions about classroom roles and behaviors
– the idea that people are having fun in the classroom makes it suspect
– course material as primary
– most interesting transformations came from experience - watching students become players

if you give people groups, they will view everything through them
play as expertise
blurring the binary distinction
– fun and learning as indistinguishable
– student anxiety: “we didn’t want people to think we were just playing games.”

students who weren’t the “best” students turned in the best midterm papers he’d ever read

from teacher to ???
– forced him to rethink the role of the teacher
– was anxious about the class throughout the semester because it was so unfamiliar; “but they aren’t learning anything;” the students “got” it right away, though, and knew exactly what they were learning
- theory testing and theory breaking
- read Murray’s “Hamlet on the Holodeck”
– haflway into the semester, the students started saying, “What would Murray say about what just happened to me in the game?”

conclusions:
– play creates expertise
– taking play seriously violates everything we know (or at least feel) about student and teacher roles; it’s uncomfortable when you’re no longer the leader with all of the knowledge
– principle barriers are faculty, not students; they immediately understood what was important about the experience (gender, social networks, embodiment, etc.); readings gave them something to push back against – they dialogued against it, which was very different and was engaging

Joshua Fouts: Public Diplomacy and MMOGs: Rethinking Foreign Policy, Cultural Understanding, and Peace through Play

Why MMOs?
– one ot many networks (developer to community)
– many to many networks (networked communication systems)
– one to many networks (player to community)

Stephen Gillett: Guild Building is Skill Building: How guild building leadership & management skills learned in MMORPGs transcend into the real world of a startup company

represents the 20something specimen of all of this
grew up around games

mom & dad didn’t know he had a 200–person guild or that he was learning basics in ten languages in Ultima

was told that the things he did might seem totally normal to him, but they’re not normal business practices
noticed that the skills of the guildmaster were the same as being a CEO
– raising money/funds
– had to incorporate
– had to come up with a mission statement
– had to keep the talent
– recruitment of talent
– ceremony and rewards systems were very similar

entering the workforce with several years of managing a guild workforce gave him an advantage

worked at c|net and now Yahoo

Connie Yowell: Respondent, (a non-gamer) from the MacArthur Foundation

response to Stephen:
we don’t have much understanding of adult learning
don’t have much on how all of this transfers, but Stephen just noted how this transferred for him; preparation for future learning
the concept of “stolen knowledge” – is it enough to have that knowledge without knowing you have it?

response to Doug:
role of the teacher is to be able to move the student from concrete experiences into a body of knowledge; it’s a continuum
“are they learning anything” is a fundamental question, and we need to understand those moments
games allow us the opportunity to rethink all of this

response to Joshua:
how do we maintain these communities through conflict?
the notion of trust and security; the role of “soft power”
as you become a member of a community, you gain “collective efficacy” – can we get this in public policy?

Doug: thinks players see race as a user interface issue
thought it was great that the game included the full range of “colors,” but once they got into the game, they didn’t see a single person of color
no discussions about this are happening


Extending the Macromedia Contribute
Installer


Extending the Macromedia Contribute
Installer
08/02/2004 09:01 PM
Learn how to add additional items to the Contribute installer to distribute custom commands, behaviors, and templates to other Contribute users.

Customizing and Extending Dreamweaver MX
2004


Customizing and Extending Dreamweaver MX
2004
06/05/2005 10:49 PM
Enhance the power and functionality of Dreamweaver to fit your own needs using the extensibility API.

Working Group Note: Extending XLink 1.0


Working Group Note: Extending XLink 1.0 02/01/2005 08:54 PM
2005-01-27: The XML Core Working Group has released Extending XLink 1.0 as a Working Group Note. The document describes changes that could be incorporated into an XLink Version 1.1 specification to address usability, dependence on annotations provided by external grammars, and interoperability. The Working Group plans no updates to this Note. Visit the XML home page. (News archive)

Update: Extending Photo Dynamic Range


Update: Extending Photo Dynamic Range 07/16/2004 09:59 AM
Photomatic Pro combines multiple images to stretch the dynamic range of a digital photo.

Macromedia extending Flash to Java, .Net
app servers


Macromedia extending Flash to Java, .Net
app servers
09/24/2002 05:08 AM
Macromedia now can connect to legacy applications that were built in Java but did not support Flash, Gruber said. Macromedia Flash Remoting MX also includes new capabilities for record set handling and databinding to simplify development.

An early user of Macromedia Flash Routing MX for Java said the product had eliminated a lot of legwork as far as code writing. "We love it for doing applications that have Flash interfaces. It definitely streamlines a lot of development," said Alon Salant, principal at Carbon Five, a San Francisco developer of custom J2EE applications.

Carbon Five builds a services-based architecture and uses Flash Remoting to assemble a series of business functionalities, Salant said. Before Flash Remoting, Carbon Five built solutions that sent objects serialized as XML, and then sent them to Flash. Flash Remoting MX for Java "lets you talk to objects between Flash and the server, which is great," said Salant.

"tri" I must look into this sometime - John

"zeldman.suely"

Extending And Embracing In Portland At
OSCON 2003


Extending And Embracing In Portland At
OSCON 2003
10/30/2003 11:56 PM

Extending an olive branch to file
swappers?


Extending an olive branch to file
swappers?
04/05/2005 06:20 AM
Cdigix's Brett Goldberg thinks cut-rate subscriptions can tap into the enormous demand on campuses for movie and music downloads.

Armstrong Wins Time Trial, Extending
Lead


Armstrong Wins Time Trial, Extending
Lead
07/21/2004 12:42 PM
Riding through a frenzied sea of fans, Lance Armstrong dominated his rivals today and extended his overall lead in the Tour de France.

Maine iBook Program Extending To High
Schools


Maine iBook Program Extending To High
Schools
01/17/2004 10:39 PM
(Macs Only! via MyAppleMenu)

Agreement on Extending Tax Cuts Reached
(Los Angeles Times)


Agreement on Extending Tax Cuts Reached
(Los Angeles Times)
09/23/2004 04:51 AM
Los Angeles Times - WASHINGTON — Congressional negotiators late Wednesday approved extending popular tax cuts that benefit middle-income Americans, delivering to President Bush a victory on a centerpiece of his economic stimulus program that he can trumpet on the campaign trail in the final weeks before the election.

Extending Microsoft web reports by
Customizing Machine properties


Extending Microsoft web reports by
Customizing Machine properties
08/31/2004 03:20 PM

Republicans Delay Action on Extending
Tax Cuts (Reuters)


Republicans Delay Action on Extending
Tax Cuts (Reuters)
07/21/2004 06:41 PM
Reuters - Bowing to White House pressure on tax cuts, congressional Republicans agreed to push for a five-year extension of the $1,000 child tax credit and other popular tax cuts just ahead of November elections.

Fixing HTML with the WDG HTML Validator


Fixing HTML with the WDG HTML Validator 01/19/2003 08:07 AM
But what's this? My page has a link to http://news.google.com/news?q=linux&scoring=d to easily catch up on the Linux-related news. But the Validator says: ...
Grok Description matches for On Extending HTML
GrokA matches for On Extending HTML

On Extending HTML

The following phrases have been identified by the grok system as matching this entry:

















Also check out:


Grok

Ipod Porn on the
Rise

Brief Abstract of
Wikipedia's
Mesothelioma Cancer
page

Get first aid
instructions in your
cell phone

IE is crap
JSPWiki gains
podcasting support

Yahoo! Tests New
Look for Search
Results

Learning Lessons
from the Inktomi
Crash

Man Charged with
Fraud in Google
Scheme

The Four-Letter Word
That Can Get People
Excited About Your
Products

RE: Can we prevent
IE exploits a
priori?

Suggestion: erase
data posted to the
Web

Sunspots at 1000
year high

Comment Spammer
adding legitimate
sites

Congrats to
Technorati for
tracking 3 million
weblogs

CDDB music lovers
best friend

Internet Explorer
getting slammed
again this week for
Security Issues

heavenSENT
Washington takes on
Net telephony

Analysts: Oracle
isn't PeopleSoft's
only problem

Dog days in the
enterprise sector

Yahoo posts profit,
meets expectations

Court refuses to
lift California
e-voting
restrictions

Apple hits back at
Sony's 'misleading'
Walkman marketing
(MacCentral)

iPods Pose
Enterprise Security
Threat (NewsFactor)

Software Piracy
Soars (NewsFactor)

Dell Sets Linux-PC
Story Straight
(NewsFactor)

Museum to Offer
Photos of Art to
Download (AP)

New IE Security Flaw
Exposed (NewsFactor)

Lawmakers Seek to
Limit States on
Internet Calls
(Reuters)

Inline::Java 0.49
(Stable)

Itnas 0.93
Mozilla Localization
with PO Files 1.7

greybox_ 1.0
Java Imaging
Utilities 0.12.0

reuters on MP3 blogs
Swim Stars Will Soon
See How Brightly
They Shine

Drug Companies in
Asia Rushing to
Produce Anti-H.I.V.
Drugs

In North Carolina,
Bush Takes a Swipe
at Edwards

Bill Sienkiewicz,
comicbook demiurge

Collect 'em, trade
'em, quarantine 'em!

Spiderman 2, Lego
Style

Rodin Museum
cringe
continuing
congressional
confusion on
copyrights (ie, not
just (c), or (cc),
or even (ccc) but
(cccc))

Microsoft throws
.Net over China

GE Flexes Its
Nanotech Muscle

U.S. Carmakers Sweat
Sales

Dunkin' Southern
Comfort?

An Analysis Of
Starbucks' WiFi
Claims

More VoIP
Legislation To Stop
States From Going
Tax Crazy

Do We Even Need
Programmers Any
More?

JIU - Java Imaging
Utilities

ikhebtools
W Ketchup™
Difficulties in
filming Winnebago
commercial

what is grok?